It finally dawned on me that I was going to have to say something intelligible in response to my own question, which caught me under-prepared, just when life itself got over-busy. Therefore, my apologies for the delay in posting part two of this topic. Excuses! Many thanks for your thoughtful and interesting comments. Feel free (as some of you surely will) to help me sort through my own thinking.
The question was/is: What is the function of a distressing near-death experience? The honest answer, of course, is rather like the answer to “Is there a God?” because none of us, now or ever, has had a provable reply. What is the function? I don’t know. However, that is not quite the same as saying, “I haven’t a clue”; and as four thousand years or so of theological debate have neither definitively answered the question about God nor exhausted the conversation, I figure we can at least take a crack at the NDE question.
It seems to me that even before approaching an answer, we have to recognize three preliminary factors: first, antiquity; second, conventional wisdom; third, the power of emotion;
Antiquity. I am convinced that it was experiences like the most deeply torment-filled NDEs that supported, ages ago, the development of doctrines of hell. The mistake that was made, and it is entirely understandable and is still made, is that, because the event is experienced as so phenomenally real, it was and is also interpreted as literally, materially real. Add to this the empirical reality of volcanoes, demonstrating to the ancients that there really is fire underground. The perceived reality of the story-told events, coupled with the empirical reality of molten fires, became and becomes a matter of geography rather than experience, which leaves us with the Hell of legend, which is how it wound up in Holy Writ. If that is the way you choose to interpret this whole question, you will recognize that I am about to take a road less traveled.
Whether one believes or dismisses the traditional idea, humanity is now by and large pinned against the wall of its own consciousness by the millennia-old and nearly universal conception that there is a more or less tangible place or condition of hideous torments waiting after death as punishment for whatever we have done wrong in life. Even when arguing rationally or even atheistically against the concept, the very existence of the argument acknowledges it as a living idea; believed or not, the concept sits like a scowling potential somewhere in our mental set.
The second preliminary observation is about the conventional wisdom, thoroughly entrenched in human consciousness by the time the story of Job was written. The conventional wisdom says that good people get good experiences, and bad people get bad ones. If you have fortune, health, people who love you, a good job, an iPad, you must be a deserving person; and if you’re broke, sick, alone, unemployed, and non-digitized, you must be a no-good, lazy bum. If you’re happy, you’re on the good side of the universe/God; if you’re suffering, you must deserve it. Right? Hah. That’s the problem with the conventional wisdom: that it’s wrong as often as it’s right. Maybe oftener. Having a distressing NDE says absolutely nothing in that sense about the person who has it. Oh, yes, it’s about the person, but not in the judgmental sense implied by reward-punishment thinking. More on this in the next post.
Third preliminary observation: What keeps the concept, like the events themselves, pinned so strongly in us is the same aspect of consciousness that keeps any near-death experience stable and lifelong in memory—the power of the emotional charge. A genuine, transcendent, full-blown spiritual and/or near-death experience carries an earthquake’s worth of emotional charge. When distressing NDEs are the topic, the sheer dread (terror, fear, angst, whatever) of our death anxiety, which is the terror of annihilation of our personal self, is augmented by the awe-full guilt we felt when our parents caught us in the wrong, when we think (if we do) of Original Sin, when we were called to the principal’s office, when our boss calls us on the carpet, when our superego growls to us, “I’ve been telling you, bad, bad, bad.”
When this powerful charge is joined with preliminary observations #1 and #2, the stage is set for a catastrophic interpretation, an identification of hell, that spans cultures. Like looking at a tree limb overhead on a wilderness trail and seeing a mountain lion poised to spring, civilization itself can be held motionless by contemplation of the traditional hell. We are paralyzed by an ontological fear, unable to think straight.
Lousy. Terror and guilt are a toxic combination; yet this is so wired into our systems, it is almost impossible to escape. It is crippling. The remedy, I believe, is to learn that there actually are other ways of thinking—and then to think them. [To be continued]
Nan,
The perceived reality of the story-told events, coupled with the empirical reality of molten fires, became and becomes a matter of geography rather than experience, which leaves us with the Hell of legend, which is how it wound up in Holy Writ. If that is the way you choose to interpret this whole question, you will recognize that I am about to take a road less traveled.
Dave,
Thank heaven for the road less traveld, “let’s go”…..!!!
Here I go again with my distrust of organized religion. The concept of hell has been used like a club to beat human kind into submission for purposes of controle. I don’t care what they “say” the motive is.
.
Only Love, and its progressive evolution within someone can truly redeem that person, When you yourself can feel the hurt you cause in someone else, in the moment you caused it, are you evolving toward the light. The moment you make that mistake is when you should seize that same moment to make up for it. Learn to care.
Jesus said “the kingdom of God is at hand. I think he meant right here right now, in this moment. “God”, the universal spirit, is within everything we feel see and touch, including ourselves. All is united through this. If you “feel” it, no indoctrination is necessary.
To me the stories of the Bible are essentially legend. In their time, within the cultures of that time, their relavence may have been more clear. If you truly want to understand, then you have to draw your conclusions of relavence from the world as it is now.
I had a Black son. I was not his biological father, but he lived with me and my family most of the time for a period of 10 years. His mother considered me as his father. He was abandoned by his biological father. Last summer he was murdered in the street by another young man who hated him. I buried my boy three days later.
I know a psychic who truly has the gift. I took his photograph, she put her hands on it, and contacted him. He said that what happened was as much his fault as the guy who shot him. On the other side he’s re considering his thinking that led to his death, saying it didn’t have to get to that. He says he’s coming back.
I was in court yesterday and his murderer got 20 years, with no possibility of parole during that time. My kid went to Heaven, and the other kid went to Hell. My “Son” is learning, from what happened. I hope I can find a way to contact His killer in the Hell he will be going to. He’s going to need all the help he can get.
Dave Woods
The conventional wisdom says that good people get good experiences, and bad people get bad ones. If you have fortune, health, people who love you, a good job, an iPad, you must be a deserving person; and if you’re broke, sick, alone, unemployed, and non-digitized, you must be a no-good, lazy bum. If you’re happy, you’re on the good side of the universe/God; if you’re suffering, you must deserve it. Right?
Actually, my understanding is that “It” (Divine Judgement) has more to do with what is going on inside, regardless of ones external appearances in life here.
For those that have a faith, sometimes we have trouble living up to the moral/ethical standards we set for ourselves, much less the ones the God we perceive sets for us.
I figure that the Hellish experiences have more to do with resistance to spiritual growth than some psychotic-driven punishment.
One of the problems here is that few people in general, and I dare say even fewer folks in the NDE studies crowd want to engage in a serious discussion of the distressing side Of Near Death Experiences. Without open, honest dialog, the Average Joe doesn’t know what to think.
We’re left with very little literature out there. At best, we get “There’s-a-dark-side-to-some-experiences-but-we’ll-just-gloss-over-them-in-a-few-paragraphs-here-and-get-back-to-the-happy-stories” bits in most books on NDE’s.
My favorite example is in Dr. Jeffrey Longs book Evidence of the Afterlife: The Science of Near-Death Experiences, where he writes that distressing NDE’s “Are beyond the scope of this book”. Typical cop-out from a writer that wants to sell a lot of books. Probably on the advice of his publisher. Other than that, it was a pretty good book, though. 🙂
Instruction can be painful as in: “I’ve had a learning experience.” Your idea: “The remedy, I believe, is to learn that there actually are other ways of thinking—and then to think them ” fits the TIBETAN BOOK OF THE DEAD. It encourages us to think our way out of “traps.” It also includes this wonderful quote: “Alas! When the Uncertain Experiencing of Reality is drawing upon me here, With every thought of fear or terror or awe for all (apparitional appearances) set aside, may I recognize whatever (visions) appear, as the reflections of mine own consciousness.”
Has anyone cataloged negative NDEs the way IANDS has for positive ones? Are there key experiences in a negative NDE that reoccur over and over, as there are in positive ones? If not, perhaps the negative NDEs are a different phenomenon altogether.
As far as Hell is concerned, it took me most of my life to finally root out this destructive concept from my beliefs about the afterlife. I finally ripped it out and threw it out. I will believe in no God that is that diabolical or sadistic. I pretty much said goodbye to Christianity at the same time, tending more towards eastern religions. The one life, one shot, heaven or hell concept leaves me cold.
Finally, though I have never had an NDE, I have had a related experience, the mystical experience, three times in my life. During a mystical experience, one momentarily perceives some of the same eternal truths that an NDE provides: there is no death, we are one with the universe, everything is connected.
Basically, distressing NDEs include enough of the key elements as pleasant NDEs to keep them in the same family: out-of-body event, movement through what feels like space, darkness/light, encounters with entities, ineffability, strong noetic experience, transience. The life review, however, seems rare or non-existent in these experiences.
The difficulty when looked at from the conventional Christian view is summed up by your statement that you will “believe in no God that is that diabolical or sadistic.” However, that view sees the experience only as punishment; in that case, and again assuming the conventional (Augustinian) view of eternal torment, God would be both diabolical and sadistic. My own view, all these years later, is that as the universe itself consists of both radiant light and unfathomable darkness, violence and tranquillity, I see no reason that our spiritual experiences should not encompass those same characteristics. Not punishment but simply a fact of nature that some events are in the extreme of unpleasant. They may still have a great deal to teach us. And as for the theological positions that claim to know (and limit) the mind of God–well, as you say, Eastern traditions can be very helpful. All connected!
Thanks very much for your comment.
Sorry this is so over-simplified. I need to explore that in greater detail with the blog.
I was thinking of Karma, but also, the idea of Shadow as described by Jung. It’s just that Karma COULD be considered a round about way to deal with what-d’ya-call-it–doing/thinking bad things, i.e., sin? Is Karma a kind of balancing out of the soul, maybe? You keep coming back or working it out in some fashion until you get it right. And certain things keep pressing on me lately, such as: Dave’s story about the murderer getting 20 yrs. (Very sorry for you, Dave, that that happened, a true trauma, I’m sure, and a great loss. I don’t mean to gloss over your loss.) But it leads me to talk here about the Shadow in Jung’s thinking, the part of our psyche we are not conscious of. So that when you have a dream pointing to something in you that you consciously disavow, the dream is said to be showing you your Shadow. It’s the duality of the good we think we are vs. the bad we believe we are NOT—opposites. But it could also go the other way—our Shadow can be something GOOD in us that we are not aware of. For instance, some criminals are quite remorseful about their dastardly deeds. Jung would say that many times their dreams are the opposite of their conscious perceptions of themselves, that their dreams may often be very wonderful and positive, because that is the part of themselves they are not conscious of, but need to be. Maybe the painful, terrifying NDE is also showing something about us we are not aware of, but need to be. Maybe the positive NDE is too, in some way. Too simplistic or mechanistic a notion perhaps; nevertheless, as in the dream, this experience may not be punishment or reward, “but simply a fact of nature” as I believe our dreams are. “The remedy, I believe, is to learn that there actually are other ways of thinking—and then to think them”. What a powerful way to learn—through an NDE!! Also: “With every thought of fear or terror or awe for all (apparitional appearances) set aside, may I recognize whatever (visions) appear, as the reflections of mine own consciousness”. Good stuff!!!! (:
Laurie
Read Emanuel Swedenborg’s “Heaven and Hell”. Your view of what Hell consists of may change.