These most recent posts about the Void have been difficult to read, I know. They stir up all sorts of dreads, old and new, about whether life has meaning, about personal identity, reality and illusion and trickery, about purpose and abandonment and isolation, and–for some of us–about the character of God. The comments here and in my emails have reflected sometimes great distress, and I was finding it difficult to craft an adequate response. For instance (and with her permission), here is Linda:
A person once said to me, “If there is a God, this is all a joke/game.” With anger. I was aghast.
Only to read this [blog post]–that nothing is real and we don’t exist–after an ADC not long ago with my son? Wow. I’d stopped dusting, cleaning and cooking from grieving the loss of my children and my home, I sit and watch cobwebs grow. To read we are not real, no-thing is real ires me. Especially with all the suffering in this “fictional” world.
After my hellish experience I learned it was an illusion. But I rejoiced my life. Many years later I experienced unconditional love. Was that an illusion too?
What can one say? How to respond? The only legitimate response is a deep and caring silence.
Almost in the same hour, into my email came something which may speak to the issue. In Scotland, homeopathic physician Bob Leckridge (you’ve met him on this blog before) had been writing about change and illusion. His blog post is titled, “Waves not things.”
Waves not things
by bobleckridge
Isn’t it amazing how being human involves unrelenting, constant change? My body feels like my body. It’s always felt like my body. But there isn’t a single cell in this body today which was here when I was a child. In fact all of the cells which make up this body are continuously being renewed. Some die off, others are born. So what is this “me”? And, at this point, I just mean my physical being. Goodness knows how you pin down the subjective “self” that is me! I create that every moment of every day.
With all this constant change, how come I retain a consistent identity?
I certainly don’t feel I am a “thing”……I’m not even sure what a “thing” is! What I mean is I am not an object. I cannot be reduced to my “substance”, my cells, my molecules, my DNA even. The totality of me is more than that, and the totality of me, right here, right now, had never existed before, and won’t exist exactly like this by the time you read this.
I think I’m a wave.
What I mean is I am more like a wave, than an object.
Have you ever stopped to think about what a wave is? You can spot a wave far out from the shore and follow it as it heads towards the rocks or the sand, but that wave is not an “it”. The water particles which make up the wave stay pretty much where they are. As the wave passes through the water, the particles just move up and down in a circular motion. They don’t actually head together towards the shore.
As you follow a wave, you are watching an energy complex consistently recruit particles into a distinctive pattern or forwards but it doesn’t bind those particles into an entity. It picks them up and drops them, moving its shape through the water……
Here’s a couple of quotes from other authors about waves.
Luther Burbank: The truth is that life is not material and that the life stream is not a substance.
Howard Bloom: You are a wave. Every minute you say goodbye to more than a billion combinations of post synaptic receptors in your brain and replace them with new ones. You do the same with the cells that line your digestive tract and make up your skin. And you constantly shift your mind from one obsession to another. Yet you retain an identity. Something more puzzling than mere substance continues to impose the shifting flicker of a you…..Your identity is a pattern holding sway over a hundred trillion cells that change constantly…….Your self is a dance that uses matter to whisk from the invisible and the impossible into the gasses, dusts, and jellies of reality.
Today, so many years after my own experience of the Void, I have come to understand that, like the wave, it is only from the most superficial material perspective that we appear to be objects, to be real things. With a change of perspective we can see that, like the wave, we are most real as an underlying, enduring activity, which is invisible to the eye.
It is at this unseen level of ourselves that a mother can communicate with a child in spirit, the level at which all our interior experience exists and we can know unconditional love and the terrifying plenitude of potential. Is it consciousness itself? I do not know. I certainly do not understand. But I heve found it to be true. By living from my waveness, I am able to move, to be, to travel from despairing emptiness to the paradoxical joy El Collie talks about. I am not real as a thing; I am real as enduringness. Invisible, yet real.
“Isn’t it amazing how being human involves unrelenting, constant change? My body feels like my body. It’s always felt like my body. But there isn’t a single cell in this body today which was here when I was a child. In fact all of the cells which make up this body are continuously being renewed. Some die off, others are born. So what is this “me”?”
………..
I love constructivism.
You want to know who YOU are? First visual picture: Imagine yourself alone in a submarine. The only way you can know what is going on above the water is to utilize equipment like sonar, periscope, radio … things like that. Without your equipment, you are lost. You are still there, you just have no way of finding out anything.
Now, sit quietly and imagine what it is like to be blind. Then, blind and deaf. Then add to that the loss of your other senses, and there you go. You are still there, but like the person in the submarine, you just have no way of finding out anything.
Now remove any and all memory data from storage in your brain, and there you have it … this is you. Everything else has been added by different bio-mechanical methods to add to and thus create that YOU that you see in the mirror (actually just the transmitted signals from your eyes).
We literally live in darkness and silence with absolutely no contact with anything around us. It’s just the way it is. But we do EXIST … if we didn’t exist these methods of contact we use (our senses) to create a more defined us wouldn’t be creating anything. Yes, there is a separation between “us” and the data we collect and use, but the end result is a merging of that data via another piece of equipment called the brain.
“So, what is this me?”
You are the sum total of all the input gathered by your senses in a compact self-sustaining body, that’s different (personality) from everyone else – AND, there seems to be an added parameter to this thing called “life” that we call NDEs.
Research has shown, especially in my favorite aspect of this picture, children – who know NOTHING, that whatever we are in our individual packages, this collection of data and experiences – goes on when the machine “ceases to function.” Personally, I like the quantum physics approach, but, as a data collector, I want a final explanation based on hard data. We know it happens, we just cannot explain the mechanics properly – yet.
So, you’re a data collector, I’m a data collector, let’s start collecting and sorting data about NDEs. People say, in a nutshell, there are good and bad experiences. OK, fine. Let me make a mental note of that, and see what can be found.
According to what I have added over the last six months to my “pile” of information collected over the last almost 60 years (not NDE – different experiences), there is an interesting anomaly regarding alleged “INTELLIGENT” life forms of various kinds, that for lack of a better term, I simply call the moron factor. This moron factor is basically identical to things we see done on this planet every day, but these beings are not from here. It would make it easier to figure out if they WERE from here, because the picture encompasses all acts of known stupidity that range from being simply childish, to sociopathic / narcissistic / even full blown psychotic events. So what happens if we apply that picture to, say, Nan’s event … what does it look like then?
“You never existed, you will never exist. You’re not real. Nothing you ever knew existed. Nor does anyone you think you ever knew, nor your life, nor where you live. You made it all up.”
If the event is real, the beings are real, and what is being said is real … just not “true.” This, to me, is an example of the moron factor. Other beings “out there” who suffer from what we call mental illness, which is nothing more than an inability to properly process data.
We can’t say for sure because there is virtually no explanational information to use, but maybe these beings were once physical, and this was the result of their life when they too passed on. Maybe they didn’t WANT to connect with the higher aspect … I don’t know. What I do know is that confusion and fear is what they are up to … and unless we start to process data correctly, left hemisphere all the way, it seems we will continue to be targets for the morons.
The only other question that would pop up would be: Why are we seeing this? If everything is information, and we are information collectors, we are being allowed to see it to collect information and “bring it home” to utilize even in other subjects too if we need to. We should be able to see the above picture and process it correctly via the left hemisphere … but we don’t. If we use the old 1960s oversimplified explanation called the triune brain theory, this picture gets easier to understand. In this picture, brain function is broken down into three basic areas: the neocortex, the emotional mid-brain, and the r-complex, an area where things like primal fear come from.
The simple picture here states that all thinking should be done by the left hemisphere, and be based on hard data. When we don’t do this, when instead we take the “thinking” of the right hemisphere’s pictures, the mid-brain’s emotional “I just FEEL this is right,” and the r-complex’s fear, all of which are valid inputs, but really need to be taken under advisement by the left hemisphere, we fail epically.
In history, this failure to think properly created pictures like – if the river dried up, it was because the river was angry at the people. Sound stupid? Sure. But that’s the way they thought due to lack of hard data. Had I run into those beings telling me I didn’t exist, I honestly don’t think I would have gotten a reply out – simply because I’d be laughing to hard. There is no difference between dealing with these moronic beings, and any like it we run into here. And until we reach a point where we clear this up, we’re going to continue use incorrect definitions and confuse this topic even more.
“After my hellish experience I learned it was an illusion. But I rejoiced my life. Many years later I experienced unconditional love. Was that an illusion too?”
“What can one say? How to respond? The only legitimate response is a deep and caring silence.”
No. Respond with hard data. Don’t have it? Get it. NDEs are not the only subject that carries a “bad” aspect, this is also found in the paranormal and UFO subjects – both of which carry this “etheric” bad picture. The UFO picture was best summed up by Dr Karla Turner:
“The sheer number of different messages, often contradictory, produces confusion, mistrust and a sense of manipulation, even if that manipulation inspires positively or disturbs negatively. “Perfectly real aliens exist out there” says one of the women in TAKEN, “and it seems one kind wants to help us and another kind wants to deceive us.”
Gee – that sounds familiar.
It’s all nothing but data … and we are data collectors. We just need to learn how to process it correctly.
For those who would like to begin processing the bigger picture of confusion with this “bad” element in another subject, the late Dr Turner’s books are in free PDF form at this site:
http://www.jeffpolachek.com/kt-books
You are “alone” in this information quest for the “bad” element simply because you never realized there are others in different subjects who are experiencing it too. Or, you just didn’t “feel” (mid-brain) like doing it, or, you were too “scared” (r-complex) to look. Whatever the case, the constructivist approach demands “all” information (subjective and objective) be looked at so a correct answer can be found. Go get ’em.
Sometimes I wonder if describing myself, others, or the whole of creation as “waves” isn’t an inescapable appeal to materialist thinking. Waves are energy, and simply put, matter is “frozen” energy.
Thinking of consciousness as a wave is a great metaphor, and perhaps, at the end of the day consciousness will really turn out to be a wave function. But if it is, then I believe that our personal consciousness wave will also turn out to be a function of something deeper. Something immeasurable by material instruments.
Obviously, we aren’t yet advanced enough to create instruments that can measure “consciousness waves”, other than the electrical brain waves that we have been able to detect since 1875. But it’s also obvious that those Electroencephalographic waves aren’t sufficient enough to even come close to describing the essential “Me”.
——————————————————————
Let me try it from this angle: If the Essence of Me is a wave, or complex coherent combination of waves, then “I” would dissipate out into space and become weaker over distance and time.
But “I” am always here. Ever changing, but always here.
Maybe I have a Source Wave, but so far, nobody has been able to detect it and mathematically quantify it.
Then again, maybe I need to meditate more. 🙂
I seem to live somewhere between quantum mechanics and metaphor. Can’t escape being a words person.
From my experience I learned that who and what I AM is pure ineffable unconditional Love. We all are. One afternoon I got what I call “zapped” when I feel others Real Self. My husband tenderly put a blanket over me while resting. I was awake. I got zapped and felt like a beloved, cherished child. That is his Real Self.
The first time I got zapped was from my mother. I was 14 years old. Instantly knew what IT was.
What is interesting is the difference, because I didn’t feel like a beloved, cherished child from her Real Self. I felt a unconditional love to die for while I was suffering.
I don’t have all the answers. I don’t think anyone can. Ever. Still, what is abiding and constant is God’s Love.
I can only hope and pray when I leave this body to find myself in the arms of God.
Then incarnate again until we not need to anymore. Waves, gas, shimmering lights, countless forms. I trust God. Love always wins.
Comparing spirit to a wave is an interesting comparison. A force / invisible energy contained within, that motivates physical matter that’s continually reinventing / replacing itself. is interesting. Yes, I’m a spirit/ energy wave existing within a container.
As I age my container is gradually losing its ability to continually regenerate……thus my physical appearance is changing.
Yes, at 78 through wear ant tear, I have physical discomfort all the time. This does not depress or bother me emotionally. It’s just my container, not me.
I perceive the world around me, and the energy animating and motivating it, with my instincts and feelings. I trust and believe in them. Thought has to take a back seat to spiritual sensing as this takes place.
When you’ve lived long enough, as life kicks the ego, judgmental ism, Fear, rampant sex urges, and other impediments too numerous to continue listing out of you, this spiritual connection gets stronger.
You’ve truly found you at last. How can you finally transition over to a higher spiritual plane if you don’t know where you are.
I too have been reading the “void” articles but have not concluded from these that we are non-existant along with everything else. Perhaps I’ve misunderstood. It seemed to me that, briefly, the aloneness experienced is part the( “source” “god” ‘the what’s behind it all” call it what you will,) experience of being the first conciousness with nothing to relate to. However – that is not the only experience of the source. There is now (and don’t tell me there isn’t) a whole rich universe with whole rich people with whole rich lives who live and learn and grow and take the time and trouble to research the foundation of things. I took the distressing aspect of nde to be one state out of many to be experienced – maybe by each soul that passes. The distressing elements have been described as aspects of the psyche – and that psyche having a universal quality in which we all participate (i.e. it is not an epiphenomenon produced by an individual brain.)
It seems to me sometimes that in this blog the only nde considered to have reliable information about the nature of things is the distressing kind. So when one is told “you don’t exist, nothing exists” etc – we have to believe it literally, but when one is told “you are loved unconditionally and are surrounded by loving beings” that is (forgive me if I exagerate) presented as naively optimistic and not to be trusted. Surely it must be possible to somehow come to a fuller understanding by studying all kinds and integrate the distressing nde into a fuller understanding.
As I said before – maybe each soul will pass through many aspects of the one conciousness. Just a thought. I have read (don’t know if on this or another nNDE blog) disparaging comments re the distressing experience that transforms into the radiant as written off (why?) as this somehow blames the nNDE experiencer who stays “stuck”.
Anyhow to re-iterate if the prime “substance” of the universe is conciousness then I see that as a reason for hope and not despair. This universe is going somewhere – it is for something and we are all privileged to be a part of it. Let’s take courage to face the challenges and rejoice in the journey.
Thank you for this important comment. I hope that a full reading of the posts on this blog will show how thoroughly I support your point of view. In the actual book Dancing Past the Dark, the Introduction contains a section titled “The Premise,” which states my position:
“… My premise in everything that follows is this: in everything we see, we are able to identify the darkness only in terms of its surrounding light. In other words, even the most frightening near-death experience is not conclusive.
“Hubble photographs show that we are part of a universe that is an unceasing flow of radiance and darkness, violence and entropy, wholeness and fragmentation, the glory of dying novas and the implacable pull of black holes that may give birth to baby universes. Our experiences, all of them, are part of this same universe. Just as darkness is not the only reality in the universe, it is not conclusive in these experiences, either. The surest foundation for understanding and being able to live with the idea (or the memory) of a deeply disturbing near-death experience is to know about the radiant stories.
“Those experiences are foundational, filled with light, and loving kindness, and a sense of wondrous, joyful discovery about the universe. There is more out there than what we have experienced, we who have had the distressing NDEs. There is more about the nature of the universe and our own experiences than what we know, just as there is more to nature itself than if we know only the desert of Baha Peninsula of California, the prairie of Protection, Kansas, or the granite of Mount Desert in Maine. They are all nature, yet astonishingly different—the scenes, the life forms, the scents, the required life skills, all quite different.
“In this same universe, we do well to keep in mind that the seeming totality of a glorious or horrifying spiritual experience is not, in fact, total; it may still be enriched by understandings to be gained from a different landscape. One group represents the heights of spiritual experience; the other—the one this book is about—represents the depths. Both lie within the Mystery. This is the one about which the least is known.”
Yes, this blog does focus primarily on distressing experiences. It does this because although there are many, many sites dealing with wonderful spiritual events and radiant NDEs, this is, so far as I am aware, the only sustained attempt to explore distressing (“negative”) NDEs and other spiritual experiences from a perspective which is neither doctrinally religious nor reductionalistically skeptical. In short, it fills a need. You’re right, it is not the only need; however, I certainly hope you will find on closer reading that the full range of these blog posts routinely acknowledges that these are not the only experiences, and certainly not the only ones to be taken seriously. If you *don’t* find that, I hope you will let me know.
Having said that, I do recognize that some commenters hold far more negative views than mine. (One strongly nihilistic comment appears right next to yours.) I’m not striving for unanimity of opinions in the comments, only for honesty and a willingness to explore openly, and to enable people who need to speak to do so. Thanks very much for being part of the conversation.
Thanks so much Nan for your comments. I have read your book – but it was some time ago, I must have forgotten the many positive aspects – perhaps I’ll re-visit. Apologies for mis-representing. And by the way I should have said thanks for the web-site – it is the only place (that I have found) that deals with this subject.
One more thought re the wave aspect of our existence – don’t lets “nothing buttery” it away like the materialists. I like to think of ourselves not as waves only – but as surfers – supported by the wave. Analogies I know can be misleading – but I rather like that one.
Surfers! What a super image! Closest I’ll ever get to the watery kind, though there’s often decent surf only two blocks from my office window. Thanks for that concept!
Rabbittdawg hits on it perfectly. I was thinking as I read the Bloom stuff how dreary and how much of a deferment to atheism the “wave” article sounded. I have had others tell me that they can’t conceive of an eternal “I” on the other hand (and I don’t mean to sound silly or dogmatic) I can’t conceive on not being “I Am.” I am no longer a fundi religious person. But, the greatest (imo) explanation for God is from the Old Testament. “Who are you lord?” “I AM.”
Nan Bush said:
“…Can’t escape being a words person.”
And you do it well, better than most.
But isn’t that the fundamental frustration in all of this – describing the indescribable?
That’s why mystics are so easily dismissed by the average Joe Sixpack. To a person dealing with the ‘normal’ stresses of life, mystics sound like charlatans because they often talk in metaphoric circles.
We can talk about it all we want, and I definitely don’t want to stop my own exploration and participation in the conversation, but at the end of the day I think it all comes down to experience and reflection.
You either “get it” or you don’t.
That’s probably the truest thing any of us can say.
Here’s an interesting article directly related to this post.
If you choose to watch the hour and thirty-seven minute Fermilab lecture, be advised that it takes about 20 seconds for the audio to kick in. The print content was adequate for me:
http://www.symmetrymagazine.org/article/july-2013/real-talk-everything-is-made-of-fields
Fascinating! Thanks for this.
what is this ‘i’ we all speak from? right now i see all things human as a product of the ego process. from what i can tell, it seems to be a temporary consciousness intended to keep all the human bodies alive while our spirit selves form. i would say our waking lives ruled by ego are a bit of cosmic humor, saying that in the least ego threatening way. all that we as egos think is SO important, really does not matter from the view of spirit. spirit continues, our ego personalities do not.
charles chancellor said:
all that we as egos think is SO important, really does not matter from the view of spirit. spirit continues, our ego personalities do not.
………
Actually, it ALL matters. The idea (while we are here) is to properly process EVERYTHING. Unfortunately, we are not taught this when we are in school and grow up without that idea in practice. The best place for you the begin sorting this out is with the over simplified triune brain theory, and go on from there if you want to a more modern approach.
The idea is, one needs to use the left hemisphere of the neo-cortex to THINK via hard data. The “ego thinking” you bring up is just another “thought process” and the only thing missing is that it is not realized that “process” delivers a picture that must be “taken under advisement” by the left hemisphere. All ideas should be taken apart, analyzed, understood, and either accepted or rejected based on logic and hard data.
I say this. True realization is in spirit, and you only connect to that when you stop thinking. In meditation shutting this off is the first priority. Over intellectual “wheel spinning” is derived from fear, and fear blocks the understanding of everything.
right. that’s it……… “So many heads have such great ideas,
But the slap of Death will stop them all.” —-Rumi.
I think “Rumi” should pick up his hash pipe and take another hit. When I finally leave what’s left of my Container / Wave, everything I’ve learned, every realization, Idea, and musical note in my spiritual consciousness is going back to the source with me. Otherwise, what in the hell did I come here for in the first place?
Dave said:
Over intellectual “wheel spinning” is derived from fear, and fear blocks the understanding of everything.
……….
Actually that isn’t true; it’s the other way around. Under intellectual “non-wheel spinning” is derived from fear, and fear blocks the understanding of everything.
You should do study of people in history with regard to thinking methods, it will show WHY they believed what they did. It all boils down to a single idea: lack of hard data.
Francis Bacon said: “Man prefers to believe what he prefers to be true.” I don’t. Any subject can be taken apart, the individual component parts studied and understood, put back together, at which point now you not only know WHAT is going on, you know the WHYS as well.
This is why constructivism is better than traditional teaching. The student can use both subjective and objective data, look at everything, and come to final conclusions via hard data. It takes longer, but it is literally the fine tooth comb of thinking.
As an example, take what you said, take what I said, and do an in depth study. When you are done, present your detailed findings.
ANY true answers to ANY puzzle, no matter WHAT the method used regarding answer-finding, all have to match in the end with the facts. If they don’t match – there’s a problem. If you refuse to see that problem, that’s yet – ANOTHER problem. I have dealt with people and thinking for years … my final conclusions – Bacon was right.
Let’s keep in mind, folks, that some of us function largely out of intellect, others out of feeling. Each has its strengths, but neither has an exclusive hold on All Of Truth.
“what the hell did i come here for.”………………. to grow a spirit.
in last couple of years i have come to a self surprising belief. all of our ‘spiritual work’ is actually done while the ego/intellect/emotions sleep. our night time consciousnesses go out to the spiritual dimensions and do their learning. after 50-60 years of that,,, we are ready to drop our containers and able to navigate what ever is next. our daytime consciousnesses are rudimentary and temporary. they are just enough consciousness to keep our physical bodies going and won’t continue passed body death. of course our ego/intellect/emotions don’t like hearing that. too threatening to even consider. i find it comical/tragic that we expect to understand all aspects of the universe with these little three pounder brains we have been alotted.
this is a personal belief of mine. please check the dictionary difference between belief and truth.
Nan said:
Let’s keep in mind, folks, that some of us function largely out of intellect, others out of feeling. Each has its strengths, but neither has an exclusive hold on All Of Truth.
………
This has nothing to do with an “exclusive hold.” All hard data is, in a nutshell, is an “explanation” of the component parts that shows how a thing works … that’s it.
Jim, out of curiosity…are you in engineering? Thanks for your interest here, though it does seem to me that “that’s it” as a conclusion is quite a lot like an “exclusive hold.” Not something I wish to debate, only an observation.
“Let’s keep in mind, folks, that some of us function largely out of intellect, others out of feeling. Each has its strengths, but neither has an exclusive hold on All Of Truth.”
– Nancy Evans-Bush –
“Where you stand depends on where you sit.”
– Nelson Mandela –
The trick is to have intellect and feeling hand in glove, working together. “Either Or” don’t get it folks.
I found after my NDE that this world we live in is a false reality.My disappointment has not changed much.It is though the communications with all of you that I can have a brief return to enlightenment.thank you!
I agree. I didn’t have an NDE, but many trips to the void and other places out there by various means (Breathwork, Monroe Institute and other out of body teachers; daily binaural beat for many years; shamanic drugs; transcranial magnetic stimulation; acupuncture that stimulates the spiritual points.) Nancy’s book made me realize that I had left all those experiences unreconciled with daily Earthly life under all the usual restrictions of an Earthly body and consensus reality. I still find it difficult to communicate with people who have not been through these very transformative experiences. I’m working on it.
Nan said:
Jim, out of curiosity…are you in engineering? Thanks for your interest here, though it does seem to me that “that’s it” as a conclusion is quite a lot like an “exclusive hold.” Not something I wish to debate, only an observation.
…..
No. As mentioned, I have had my own experiences that have run from 1955 to 2010, and let’s just say this is what I have been taught regarding “thinking.” Logic and hard data is not an approach to be backed away from, it’s only a detailed “explanation” based on facts. As these facts change, the conclusions reformat to a broader “better explained” idea.
My (re)interest in the NDE subject (and the paranormal subject) began at the beginning of this year, and I was quite taken by the amount of work that has been done in the NDE subject since my last look-see back in the 70s and again in the early ’90s.
It’s the “negative” aspect that shocked me, and because of this new work I have been able to construct an overall preliminary analysis of the main topic, which simply put, is life. My conclusions are not yet final, of course, but I find the picture fascinating.
Based on a preliminary assessment, your “negative NDE” experience was an allowed lesson meant to show the two sides of the coin of life. I went through the exact same thing in my experiences, in fact, I was ironing out a major question regarding my negative event that I have held since 2006, when your group email notice popped up. In my picture, this negative event was ALLOWED to happen, to teach me something – that the negative aspect IS OUT THERE. The difference between you and me regarding a response to what happened, is that I literally dismantled my experience down to every screw and nut involved – came to a conclusion – rebuilt it – and waited to see what else might come in.
I waited from 2006 until today to add anything to this, and it’s been people like yourself who have shared this negative approach that gave me what I needed to finalize this picture.
It – SEEMS – I so impressed whoever was behind those negative events, they gave me another clue to work with … one that doesn’t explain “the whole picture” … but enough to be added to, which it was, by whoever I have been working with all along. You can tell by the odd language approach, things are said in a way that still can be puzzling.
“It was never expected that you would get as far as you did; you found the end of the road. An end that exposes the fact, there is no road.
People all follow dead end roads, and NEVER figure out that they are indeed, dead ends.
IT IS COMING!
You, and everyone else, need to take all of your beliefs, put them in a pile in front of you, AND BACK AWAY.
Put them in a pile in front of you, AND BACK AWAY.”
Nan, thanks to people like you who have shared the negative side of this picture, I have finally been able to put the experience to rest.
I have this funny picture in my head of a bet going on between the good guys and bad guys, saying “Bet you can’t take him down LOL. If you don’t, you have to tell him everything.” They did tell me everything – but unless you knew the details (which are oddly missing of course) you’d never see it. Those “details” came in from my crew, beginning about 5 months after this event was over, and ran from 2006 to 2010. Bottom line, we have a real problem. And at the rate things are going, I don’t believe we are going to straighten it out.
This is why the subject never gets old. It’s waay more than a subject. Thanks, Jim.
Nan said:
This is why the subject never gets old. It’s waay more than a subject. Thanks, Jim.
………
You are welcome. 🙂
It’s a restoration of certain facts that we lost beginning 5300 years ago. The “error” manifested itself as Egypt and Sumer, and it was what came after that, history as we have come to know it, that really caused the downhill spiral.
I’m just going to say this, based on what I have seen thusfar: It’s the negative side of this study that’s actually more important right now than the positive. Why? If we don’t learn about the anti-aspect, we are going to be very very sorry. (Just – something else we “lost”.)
There’s a game going on, the likes of which you wouldn’t believe. And it’s all hidden in statements without details in that last post quote. What they are counting on is also mentioned: “People all follow dead end roads, and NEVER figure out that they are indeed, dead ends.” They know how we think … time to change the picture.
So where to start? I don’t know how links manifest in these posts, but I would suggest starting with this video. The address may need to be copied and pasted, I don’t know. It’s a new show on the History Channel called Deception … part of the new “Your bleeped up brain” series.
http://xfinitytv.comcast.net/watch/Your-Bleeped-Up-Brain/6524445079807706112/38872643576/Deception/videos?cmpid=syn_rss
I just finished reading the blog and comments and found it very stimulating. I will share a poem I wrote years ago.
The VOID
within the windswept landscape of empty mind
there is no object to define
no point, no plane, no line
not even a knower to hear this rhyme
It seems to me that the fact of the matter is not a matter of fact. In fact, does matter even matter in the end? Every nder (ender) I have ever interviewed says to a person that there was no “time”. We know that time is dependent on space and matter–our “objective” world view. Within the spiritual experience of eternity (not infinity which is spacial) there can be no objective substance and yet it is reportedly more real than (our) real. Is it difficult to live with paradox, or can we relax into mysterium?
Dear Nan and everyone,
Fascinating blog posts and comments. Buddhists talk about concepts like emptiness and that the idea that our destiny is neither annihilation nor eternal existence and that truth is a middle way, which is hard to comprehend (at least for me right now!). Nan do you think your waves description either does or might be similar/related?
Jon
There’s something about the wave metaphor (and/or reality) that feels right. Maybe not the only right, but certainly related. Thanks, Jon.
I’ve read and read Jim’s Hard Data post very carefully a few times, and I see his point as he sees it. From his perspective he’s right.
I have spent my life trying to inwardly understand music through sound. yes, I went to a university, and I studied with teachers, but I found that none of the verbal explanations of the various elements that create music truly told me what it was.
When through inner experiencing the sounds I truly knew what it was, I found that no amount of verbal description could convey my reality to someone else.
I had to lead them through hearing and feeling into discovering it for themselves. When they began verbally trying to explain their perception of it back to me, that’s when I had something to work with to guide them further. When they in turn started teaching me back, that’s when I knew I’d succeeded.
Human mind has dificulty to define a proces,but an ease to define a thing.Thats why the law of natural selection take so long to be discovered.For humans ,plants animals were things eternaly defined in their ideal shape.Like Platon we think there is a ”ideal horse” somewhere,not that there is no boundary between horse and the animal that precede it.
Decartes ,after remove anything from his mind,emerge to a conclusion”i think therefore i am”.Unlike Buddha for which there is no I and everything is an ilusion,not in the sense of inexistence ,but in the sense that nothing last for eternity,the only unchangeble thing is the change itself.
We can sense both happiness and suffering in the same time.Thats the essence of masochism.If we see a horror movie we feel fear(suffering) but also the pleasent rush o adrenaline.When hapiness have the same intensity as the suffering we have neutrality.
Greetings from Romania,the other side of the planet.
Dave Woods said:
When through inner experiencing the sounds I truly knew what it was, I found that no amount of verbal description could convey my reality to someone else.
…………
Regarding the music, THAT is all feeling. I wanted a guitar as a teen in the ’60s, but a regular 6-string guitar didn’t make it for me … was too flat “sounding.” I went with a 12-string and never looked back LOL. Last one I bought was a 1977 Takemine; still have it today.
Feelings are exactly that – feelings. Music IS all feel. But “things” that CAN be explained, must be explained via hard data. Why? Because we are bombarded with data and the problem in the picture is interpretation … and the brain MUST interpret – it’s just the way it is. When those interpretations are made via feelings, Houston, we have a problem.
There is (or maybe it’s over now) a really good series on the History Channel that breaks this all down nicely, it’s called Your Bleeped Up Brain. Take some time to watch.
http://www.history.com/shows/your-bleeped-up-brain/videos
“You never existed, you will never exist. You’re not real. Nothing you ever knew existed. Nor does anyone you think you ever knew, nor your life, nor where you live. You made it all up.”
I’m not a philosopher; just a simple housewife, but I find this statement to be illogical. If you never existed, how could you even hear this statement? And how could you make something up if you never existed? Doesn’t make sense to me…
See my next post.